Comfort in Shared Experiences

Grief can make you feel like you’re speaking a different language, even with people who love you. We’ve both learned there’s a unique kind of comfort when you sit with someone who has lived a similar loss and doesn’t need you to justify the brain fog, the shock, or the strange new version of daily life that shows up after a spouse dies. That shared experience doesn’t erase the pain, but it can soften the loneliness and replace self-doubt with something steadier: validation.

We talk about the realities of widowhood and partner loss that most people don’t see. The immediate “business mode” of making calls and handling logistics. The practical weight of taking over everything in a household, from bills and taxes to routines and responsibilities you used to share. We also share the small, oddly specific moments that carry big meaning, like realizing you’ve picked up your partner’s habits, letting some chores slide because your energy has changed, and how outsiders can misread those shifts as laziness or depression instead of grief.

We also get honest about how grief evolves over time. Even years later, milestones can bring joy and pride mixed with the ache of “I wish they were here,” especially for kids and family moments. If you’re searching for grief support, widow support, or healing after loss, this conversation offers a steady reminder that you’re not broken, you’re adjusting to a new life. If you found this helpful, subscribe, share it with a friend who needs it, and leave a review with what you want us to talk about next.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:02

Welcome to Your Friend in Grief, a podcast for anyone learning who they are after loss. I'm Melinda, and I'm here with Melani, and we're so grateful you're here. This is a space where grief is honored, healing is not rushed, and your heart is allowed to feel everything it feels. Melani and I are walking this path with you through honest conversation, shared stories, and the kind of friendship that holds you up on the days you need it most. We're happy you're here.

unknown 0:29

Hi.

SPEAKER_01 0:30

Hello, friend.

unknown 0:31

Hi.

SPEAKER_00 0:31

Hi. How are you? I'm good. How are you? I'm good. It's been a while since we've recorded. We had kind of front-loaded a bunch of episodes. So it's been a little while since we've been together talking about all these things.

SPEAKER_01 0:45

Yes. How I um so we are in April now. I can't remember the last because, like you said, we we did a bunch of recordings. I think the last time January. Yeah. I think I was gonna say end of January, beginning of February.

What Shared Experience Really Means

SPEAKER_00 1:02

I think it was the end of January. Yeah. Now that doesn't mean that we haven't spoken since then. We we speak every day. It's just we haven't recorded a podcast since late January. So all right, I'm ready to spin the wheel and see what we're gonna come up with today. Of course, I always never put it in the right spot. Let's see what it's gonna say. Comfort in shared experiences. Ooh, I like that. Comfort in shared experiences.

SPEAKER_01 1:38

Um, wow, yes. Do you want to go first?

SPEAKER_00 1:43

The the million-dollar question. Um, you know, I think the first thing that comes to mind for me is that recognizing that it's an incredible connection with someone when you can relate to those experiences. And I think especially something of this magnitude is especially important because no one understands that moment when you immediately like go into shock because of what's just happened. Or um, you know, weird things happen, like you can no longer drink coffee. Um, you just wake up and it's you just can't. And then it's like you can barely remember your name, or you forget to shower, or brush your teeth, or and most people on a regular basis, I don't think, would understand. Well, how do you forget to brush your teeth? Like that is something that is the first thing you do, right? Or how do you just forget to shower? You're just overcome. Like the things that happen are incredible and at the same time fantastical and not in a good way, but just it feels like you're in a fantasy of like, I can't even believe this is real life. And uh for me, I was going through the motions, but I it was like I wasn't participating, like I was barely participating in some things and then in other things, and and you know, you know this kind of mode. I call it business mode, where you turn off the emotion and you just have to get shit done. Right. And I went into that mode immediately because I took it upon myself, like after I had the conversation with the friends that were at my home, and they were like, No, you have to call his mother now. And I'm like, I can't wait. And they're like, No. Once I pulled that band aid off, and that was like the worst thing, it was like the worst person I had to tell. That was the worst, right? From there, I just kind of put my big girl panties on and I was like, okay, fine, we're gonna make all the calls then. And I had people, hi Stella. I had people that were asking, like, oh, can I make some calls for you? What can I do for you? And I'm like, no, I I I I can't. I have to do it myself.

SPEAKER_01 4:12

Um and okay, so you just kind of touched on something interesting because we're we're we're the topic is comfort and shared experiences, right? But did you find yourself not willing to share the experience with people in the beginning?

SPEAKER_00 4:29

Um I didn't have a choice. Um because there were a lot of people at my house because I lived in a townhome complex and I was I was sort of forced. Like people descended upon me in in the best meaning of all. Um but I didn't have a choice in that. Like they were there, they went to Costco, they got food, they brought it to the house, they made sure people had food and you know everybody was there. Um, but I guess for me, in a way, the making the calls was part of that shared experience with every one of our family and friends. Like I felt like I had to be the one to do that. And I think in a way, it one helped me recognize this is what happened, and two helped me help them grieve a little bit.

SPEAKER_01 5:30

Right.

SPEAKER_00 5:30

So I think that that that's okay. Um but I think for me, those shared experiences later after the initial experience became being able to tell the funny stories and the sweet stories and the kind stories, and you know, the experiences of being with friends and family and having that connection to Mike. And I think that that made a difference for me. Um, but also, you know, a lot of my friends didn't really get me anymore, they didn't understand as much as people want to try to understand, it's not the same. Like understanding that um it's a shared experience, but at the same time, it's like they're feeling for you and feeling horrible for you, but no one can relate that experience unless like you and I had an instant connection.

SPEAKER_01 6:36

Yes, and probably because we both had lost husbands, yes. And I think the other people in our class had had different types of losses, right?

SPEAKER_00 6:49

Absolutely, and I think that that made our connection stronger because you and I both have known how hard it is to do the things we had to do after we lost our husbands. And it's not it's not the same as if you lose a mother or a father or a sibling or a grandparent. It's a different set of challenges. It is. Do you have all the passwords to all the bank accounts? Do you know where all the things are? Do you know when your car needs to be re-registered for the annual registration? Do you know the things that have to be paid? Do you I think one of the reasons we had that connection is like we understood what it was to be a wife without a husband of the shared partnership that you have in the home of, you know, one of you takes out the trash, the other one scoops the litter box, um, you know, one of you does the laundry, one of you does the dishwasher. Like you have your preferences, right? Like Mike hated loading the dishwasher, but he was happy to unload that damn thing. And I'm like, I think it was a food like on the plates and rinsing things off kind of thing. But you and I can relate to that if you've, if you, and I'm not diminishing this, but if you've lost a parent, it's not the same. And it's not the same weight. It's still heavy and it is still a loss, and it is still absolutely life-changing, but the weight feels different.

SPEAKER_01 8:18

Um I I think it's heavy because when you lose a spouse, it's the only um where every aspect of our life changed.

SPEAKER_00 8:32

Yes, right?

SPEAKER_01 8:33

Yes. Um, and I don't, you know, I'm sure other people can set me straight on this. But definitely, you know, because I I have lost a grandparent, I have lost a sibling, I have lost a parent, I have lost beloved pets, I've lost a child, and I've lost a husband. Uh and I've lost friends. So, and I can tell you that every one of those losses is completely different, but not a one of them hit me in every aspect of my life in the same way that it did from when I lost my husband.

SPEAKER_00 9:16

Completely understand that. I completely agree. And um yeah, and I think I had a thought that just kind of went out of my head, but that shared experience is I mean, it's just a connection that you have where people are you had a partnership, it was, and it does impact your everyday life. It changes how you grocery shop, it changes how you cook, it changes how you do laundry, it changes your night routine, your morning routine, all of it. It's every does.

SPEAKER_01 10:01

It's it changes your space needs, it changes how you make the bed. I mean, I do you make the other side of your bed? I barely touch the other side.

SPEAKER_00 10:11

Candidly, I barely touch either side.

SPEAKER_01 10:14

Right. Um but you know, so some days. Everything. Everything. Your responsibilities change, your priorities change, your perspective change, everything.

SPEAKER_00 10:27

You have to make space for okay, well, now I've got to make time to pay the bills, I've got to make time to uh file the taxes, which we've talked about. I hate that. But you know, that's just it's just things, and I think in a true partnership, you have one spouse that does certain things, you know, you you you use your skill sets and you balance them to what does one person do better than the other, right? And so you just automatically take on some of those pieces. And I think that for me, that was the hardest piece because I know people are single all the time in the world, all over. And but yet for me, it was really hard to make that adjustment because I'd had a partner for so long where it was absolutely 50-50. And so that makes a difference.

SPEAKER_01 11:19

Well, we had lost when we lost our husbands, we lost our whole shared experience with them. Yes. Right. And so we went from being a part of a partnership and a unit to then being um very much alone and just feeling like I felt like a fish out of water, right? Like I I was like, I I don't even I don't even know who I am without him, right? Um, and I really I like you feel like you woke up in a nightmare or like a I always say a bad B movie. Um and just to be able to connect with somebody who doesn't even need you to vocalize any of that and absolutely gets it and knows where you came from, right? And knows, and to recognize that your feelings and your thoughts, you're not crazy.

SPEAKER_00 12:19

Right.

SPEAKER_01 12:20

Right? Like you, those things you're feeling and thinking, they are totally valid. Right. Um and so to have that shared experience is wow, priceless.

The Tiny Habits That Now Hurt

SPEAKER_00 12:34

It is, and even though every journey is different, there's still so many similarities, like similar of the experiences, right? Like that that I think people can relate to, even if it's not exactly the same. You know, I can relate to widows who are older than me simply because they were married for so many years, right? I mean, it's you lose your best friend, it's an absolute truth. And I think that there is something very sacred about women holding space for other women who are going through this through this kind of loss. I agree, you know, it's and I have recently come to think about, you know, I was a younger widow at 51, and I now like never really understood people who lost their spouses before, but I also now in reflection, I can't imagine what it would be like to go through this at 80 or even 70, and that hits me in a way that I didn't expect. Like that makes me incredibly sad for because I know how hard it was for me, and five years, almost six years later, I am starting to figure out who I am again. But this was I was with him for 20 years, 21 years. Like, what if you'd been with somebody for 40 years? Like the majority of your life, and then one day they're just gone. And that's to me, that's I almost feel like that's worse, Milani, because you're already in a state of being like in your 70s or your 80s, and life's already hard. Like maybe, you know, you're probably retired and you spend all every minute of every day with your spouse, like constant, right? That's what you do. You don't have a job to go to.

SPEAKER_01 14:55

Um yeah, I mean, when you hear about couples who one partner dies and then the other one dies shortly after, I totally get that now.

SPEAKER_00 15:04

I do, yes, same. Yeah, because it's just it's so heavy. It's just so heavy. And I'm not diminishing, like it's hard, it's hard no matter what. It's hard if you lose a spouse and you're younger, it's hard if you lose a spouse and you're older, it's harder if it's hard if you're in the middle. None of it is harder. It is all hard, but I know what I went through, and I can't imagine doing that later in life, which most people do, right? Many, many people do. And it just gives me so much more empathy for like my grand my grandmother. And you know, it just yeah, it just kind of tugs at your heart in a different way of like, wow, I didn't really get that when I lost my grandfather, I didn't get what was happening to her, right? And I think that just makes us more aware too, and wanting to understand some of what makes it a shared experience, right? Mm-hmm. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 16:10

Um you know, of course, we don't appreciate something fully until like we're affected by it personally or we go through it ourselves.

SPEAKER_00 16:22

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 16:23

And sometimes I think you know, because people will say, like, oh, you're so understanding, and you you I can talk to you about this stuff, and well, I I don't know if I could have had a conversation with you about it and made you feel comfortable about it until I had gone through it myself.

SPEAKER_00 16:43

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:45

And I certainly could have been given you some, I could have held space for you, but could I have fully understood it? Probably not.

SPEAKER_00 16:54

No, and I had I have friends that um one friend that she lost her husband a year or two before um Mike died, and it was a colleague, and I was I tried to be as kind as I could to her, like all the things. And then later when Mike died, it was like, I can't believe we're both here. Like, oh my god. Right. Like, and she was like, You always checked on me, you always of everybody, you always were trying to check and see how I was doing, and you know, you were so kind, and it was just like, well, of course, you want to be kind to people when they've had a loss and all of these things, but I didn't truly understand her loss until it happened to me. And I know that people are very well-meaning and are like, I want to be here and I wanna I wanna help you, and I want to be there for you, and all the things. And it is, it can be challenging because people don't necessarily understand exactly what you need, and this isn't something that's gonna be fixed. This isn't something that I'm just gonna get over. It's not something that's just gonna go away. It's just, I don't know, people who have lost a spouse holding space for me is very sacred to me. I agree. And not that the friends that are holding space for me, I love and adore and appreciate them too. But it totally but it hits different when you know it's someone who gets it. And and you and I've had these conversations that like Mike used to leave before bed, he would throw off his t-shirt and his shorts that he'd been wearing around the house all you know on the weekend. He would just throw them on the floor and his socks before he'd crawl into bed, right? And I just irritated me, but I never said anything about it. It was just like funny, right? And but I just like it was it was kind of an annoyance, right? Just, but I never said anything about it. Well, now I've got clothes strewn all across between my bedroom and my closet. It's like, oh, well, there's just shorts on the floor in there, or there's sweatpants next to the bed now. And I'm like, yeah. And most people would be like, Well, you're just being a slob. Like, that's just sloppy. But the irony that that it was something Mike used to do that kind of irritated me, and now I do it, is is it's lost. And it hits you differently than it would anybody else. Because I'm sure there are things that you do that annoyed you or that Dennis would do that you were like, oh, that irritates me.

SPEAKER_01 19:46

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 19:48

And and you do them now, right?

SPEAKER_01 19:51

Like it's just Yeah, because it's well, it's like I don't care anymore. It doesn't matter anymore. Like those things that I got annoyed about, they don't matter anymore.

SPEAKER_00 20:04

And do you think okay, and I'm not sure what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_01 20:06

Don't know why I wasted any energy on getting annoyed by it.

SPEAKER_00 20:10

I was just gonna ask, and and this may be going off on a tangent, but do you think women uh women obsess and worry about those things more than men do in general? And that's why they may we spent time thinking about them when they don't even think they didn't think about them at all.

SPEAKER_01 20:24

I mean, it's entirely possible. I'm sure there was a I if it had been turned around, like had we been the ones that our husbands had lost, there's probably a ton of things about us that were very annoying that they would have been like, oh my gosh, I miss those things now.

SPEAKER_00 20:43

Exactly. Exactly, exactly. And it but it's just it is funny because it's just you know, and it also makes me laugh because I'm like, that's really funny, like that I recognize now that yeah, but it is it is also of I don't care anymore.

SPEAKER_01 20:59

Yeah, it doesn't matter.

SPEAKER_00 21:01

I'm not gonna expend energy to think about it.

SPEAKER_01 21:04

Exactly. I have this habit of when I'm in the kitchen and I'm cooking, I have like all the drawers open and the cabinet doors open because I'm reaching for things, right? And that used to drive Jonas crazy because he would bump into them. Bong his head or you know, bump into an open drawer or something. Yeah. So he was always going behind me, closing the cabinets, closing the drawers, and adjusting the seasoning on what I was cooking. And that used to drive him crazy. And now I kind of like laugh to myself because I will step back when I'm cooking and I will see like all the cabinet doors open and all the drawers open, and like he's not here. There's nobody to get annoyed with me about. That's right, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:02

Yeah. And those are things that I think not everybody will understand. It takes a deeper meaning with someone who's had that loss. Because somebody who hasn't had a loss will be like, well, Mindy's just being sloppy.

SPEAKER_01 22:16

Right.

SPEAKER_00 22:17

It's like, yeah, but there's a deeper meaning.

SPEAKER_01 22:19

Or Mindy's depressed. Mindy doesn't clean anymore because she lost. Mindy's depressed. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:25

Mindy's depressed because she left her her pajamas next to the bed.

SPEAKER_01 22:29

Right. Instead of putting them away. Mindy's such a slob since her husband died.

SPEAKER_00 22:35

Yeah. Such a slob and depressed, yes. Oh, yeah. And uh, you know, I didn't like to have dishes in the sink. Well, I've had a cat fountain in the sink for three days. Just waiting to get cleaned. Like, it's just sitting in the sink. And I'm like, okay, yeah. Not worried about it.

SPEAKER_01 22:55

My energy goes to other places now. I don't care about that stuff anymore.

SPEAKER_00 22:58

Yeah, I have less tolerance for some of that stuff. It's like, it's fine. It'll be fine for three days. I'll get to it this weekend when I have a little more time to myself.

SPEAKER_01 23:07

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 23:07

Work's been busy. It's like, all right, we'll get to that later. They've got a bowl of water down there. They have two other fountains in the house. So each of the cats has their own fountain if they wanted it.

SPEAKER_01 23:18

That's a different conversation.

Rest Without Judgment

SPEAKER_00 23:20

It's not like, it's not like they're unhappy. It's a bowl of water. So um, but yeah, I'm like, I don't have the energy for that tonight.

unknown 23:30

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 23:32

I think the beauty of the shared experience is just having somebody else to connect to who gets it, who understands it. That you can even sit quietly and comfortably with and you don't have to talk.

unknown 23:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:44

I mean, as much as you and I understand loss. And you can absolutely appreciate my feelings of having lost a child, but because you haven't personally gone through it, you don't know how it feels on the inside, right?

unknown 24:07

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 24:07

And there are probably so many thoughts and feelings that I have that I may or may not be able to articulate to you, even though you're my best friend, only because we don't have that shared experience. We have an understanding, we have love for each other, right? I have a very dear friend who lost her son to the same way in which I lost Evan. And in much the same way that you and I connected over losing our husbands, that's how she and I connected over losing our sons.

SPEAKER_00 24:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:41

So yeah, there is some magic in a shared connection.

SPEAKER_00 24:46

Absolutely. Absolutely. And I think you know, it just deepens the friendship. It just does.

SPEAKER_01 24:54

I mean, I I don't think I would I would be where I am today had I not met you.

SPEAKER_00 25:02

Same. I I agree with that. I with that's with the level of understanding and just you letting me be me and whatever that looks like on any given day. And like that's it's a it's special and it's I'm grateful for it, but I absolutely think it's been having someone who understands. And when I'm like, yeah, I'm gonna stay in bed all day, not depressed. Or I'm just kind of. Nobody's judging you. Mm-mm. Yeah. And we tend to judge ourselves.

SPEAKER_01 25:38

I mean, in these situations, we are the worst.

SPEAKER_00 25:42

Yes. It's like, oh, I should do more, I should be busier, I shouldn't be resting as much. And that's you know, childhood trauma as well. But also, like it's all on me. I should be giving myself more of a break and more grace. And when I finally do that, it's like, okay, yeah, there's no judgment. It's like, do what you need to do for you. Yeah. Take care of you.

SPEAKER_01 26:09

But I still like you are always the one who reminds me that it's okay to be me, that it's okay to have those days where I I don't want to do things that I'm supposed to be doing.

SPEAKER_00 26:23

Well, and you know what's funny about that is because what I see in you is someone that's always getting her shit done. Like you're always getting your shit done. Like you're getting it done, whatever you need to do. And I'm kind of like, I've I've had a long week. It's been a I've worked all week, I've had some presentations, I've had some client conversations, like I've done all the things. It's like, can I just lay in bed today and read my book?

SPEAKER_01 26:52

And like, I'm more done. I need the reminder. I need the reminder that it's okay to not get the shit done and to sit.

SPEAKER_00 27:02

It's okay, yeah. And I'm learning that. And then like last weekend, I got all kinds of shit done. Right? Like, sometimes I need to take a break from getting the shit done, and then I focus on it for a couple of days. And I'm trying to be better about hey, let's spend an hour on this and then maybe or two hours on it, and you can have the rest of the day off, right? Like, it's it's a bargaining chip with myself of like, all right, if you do a little bit of this, then you can do this. And but it's also like you deserve that break. It's okay to rest.

SPEAKER_01 27:41

Yeah, well, when you're the person who's responsible for everything, why do we need to negotiate rest?

SPEAKER_00 27:51

Right. And we don't need to. And we are like, there's no day off for me. I've got to feed myself and the cats. I gotta make sure their potty is cleaned twice a day. Right. I gotta make sure they have food, they have water, that they're taken care of, that Joey was sick, so I had to make sure he was okay. So I've been monitoring a small furry child for the last three days. And, you know, I still had to get up and do all the things, even if I didn't feel good. Like you just gotta do it. There's no day off. So it makes sense that it'd be like, oh, so sometimes I I need those reminders from you too, because sometimes I tend to overdo, but I do think like you and I both we get it, like different than a different friendship might of as far as well, we're doing everything. And it's not that other people aren't doing everything, it's just there's that everything behind it.

SPEAKER_01 28:48

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 28:49

That kind of comes to the surface.

SPEAKER_01 28:51

Mm-hmm. So I mean, I don't know that I don't know it. Would you and I I think about this all the time. Like, if we had not met under the circumstances that we did, would you and I still be Mindy and Milani as we are I don't know, because I don't know that our paths would have crossed anywhere.

SPEAKER_00 29:12

Right. In our lives. Two different states.

SPEAKER_01 29:15

But would I would our connection be as deep as it is?

SPEAKER_00 29:20

Probably not. Probably not. Because we i if we had any any if we had crossed paths at any time, it would have been superficial. Right. And so I do think I do think that has a lot to do with it.

SPEAKER_01 29:36

So what do you think because I I ask myself this, and I may or may not have an answer on it, but what do you think it is that prevented you from having a shared experience with somebody else before you and I met?

SPEAKER_00 30:00

Well, I think because we met in a grief coaching course, like I have shared experiences with friends. None of them are traumatic, really. Um, they're usually work or, you know, co-colleagues or friends of friends or people you've known for a lot of your life. And while we have shared experiences from parts of those times in our lives together, you and I came together after a traumatic experience reshaped both of us versus like my friends that I spent like, you know, four or five, three or four years together with, going out to clubs and listening to bands and doing all those things. Like I have shared experiences with people for that, but I don't, but but and I have deep they're the the relationships are great, right? They're they're deep friendships, but they are it is different. It is different because the conversations that you and I have are different.

SPEAKER_01 31:05

Oh, totally. Because I did um connect with some a widow group in the area. And you know, all lovely people, um a few of which I still keep in touch with, but I didn't feel you know, what you and I have is different.

SPEAKER_00 31:31

Yeah, and I you know what I think I think that's who we are. Like I think maybe, yeah. If we had maybe because and maybe that's it, maybe that is if we had met in a different circumstance. Let's say we just met in a regular class, not just a grief coaching class, but just a regular coaching class. We might have hit it off. I mean, we we get along very well. We, you know, we complement, I think, each other in strengths and weaknesses. Like you call me out on my shit, and and I'm like, hey, you gotta try not to do it all. Like you don't have to do it all today. You know, like we both call each other out on those things, but at the same time, we we make sure we have each have enough space to be like, you know, yeah, I get it. Like, I don't know. I I think it is an interesting question, and I don't know the answer, but I definitely think, yeah, it's just because someone's a widow, you're not gonna automatically connect with them. You will on a superficial level, but it's not necessarily that you're gonna meet somebody who's gonna absolutely become your best friend. Like, I think that's different. But I think because we met in a grief coaching course, which was one because we wanted to help others. We wanted, you know, maybe we were more similar personality-wise there, that we both had the desire to help people connect through grief because it impacted us so intensely.

SPEAKER_01 33:05

I mean, for me, looking back now, I can absolutely see that it was part of my therapeutic process.

SPEAKER_00 33:15

Oh, even though I don't do a ton of coaching, it was the best therapy I could have ever done for myself, going to the coaching, uh life coaching course. Uh both of them. Yeah. Huge, huge, huge part of my healing, learning about me and what makes me, what motivates me and non-motivates me.

SPEAKER_01 33:39

Well, I hope that not that I want other people to go through this, right? But I hope that me as somebody who has lost a spouse that that makes me a better grief coach. Because I can connect with other people who are going through it too. We have could because we have that shared experience.

SPEAKER_00 34:06

Yes, absolutely. And I think it does. I think it does make you a better coach, uh especially for people who are greaming. And it does. I mean, you know, you and I every once in a while coach each other when we're not trying to. Or something comes up and it's like, so what do you think? No, we only say we're not trying to. No, I only say I'm not trying to. You. Um, but no, I you you coach me when you need to, and I I know it's happening when, even if I don't acknowledge it. Um I tend to be, I tend to go rogue a lot. So I need more. Let's let's get some little coaching there, Mindy. Like we're we're let's stay in between the lines. Um, but I I do tend to go rogue a little bit. Um, but that's just me. That's just me. And I think that's part of my rebellion of I have a lot of rebellions, uh, you know, not fully thrilled about being a widow. So I have some rebellions in life that I, you know, damn it. So um but yeah, I I definitely think it makes you a better coach. And I I even think that the podcast is in a way therapeutic because you and I are talking about topics that we've never talked about before in some cases.

SPEAKER_01 35:24

Oh, yes. Yes, and I think that's why sometimes after an episode, you and I might feel a little bit funky or a little bit heavy, right?

SPEAKER_00 35:32

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 35:33

Because we are probably working out some things.

SPEAKER_00 35:36

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 35:36

Um being put on the spot to talk about things that we don't normally address.

SPEAKER_00 35:44

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 35:44

In our day-to-day. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:46

I absolutely think that. And you know, one of the things is we haven't recorded since probably end of January, but we did, we we've learned uh too many episodes in a one recording session at a time really does a number on us.

SPEAKER_01 36:02

Oh my gosh, that day that we recorded, was it three or four episodes in a row?

SPEAKER_00 36:07

Yes, yes, we were like post after that.

SPEAKER_01 36:11

Yeah.

Joy With Sadness And Big Milestones

SPEAKER_00 36:12

And a little cranky and not happy, like it it was, it was kind of dark.

SPEAKER_01 36:19

It was like it was like I think we had the great misfortune of getting very heavy topics that day.

SPEAKER_00 36:28

Yes, yes. So heavy topics on top of like a half a day conversation about grief. And that's you know, it just takes its toll. And I think that that's you know, I'm six years out, and I think you're five, right? We just passed five on the first. Just past five. I'm coming up on six. And I think that that's a really great point. That even this far out, some things can take you right back into it. And I think it just shows how grief, yeah, and that just shows how grief you don't ever get over it. It's just it shows up in different ways in your life. And that day, I think, yeah, we both were like, oh, I feel like crap now. Like what? Oh, like yeah, and I it really put a spirit in a thing.

SPEAKER_01 37:14

I feel bad saying that because I don't want people who are in the early stages of grief to feel hopeless, like, oh my god, I'm always gonna feel like this. But yes, you are always going to feel it, it will change, it will evolve, it will, you'll have good days and bad days.

SPEAKER_00 37:31

And eventually you'll have more good days than bad days. It is easier to carry, and you will eventually have like you know, people talk about glimmers, and you will find joy in day-to-day life and in friends and in, you know, connections, and in, you know, I mean, my animals bring me joy every day, and you know, in the silly little things they do. And so there is joy in my life. There's also sadness. I don't, and I don't, but I don't um, what's the word I'm looking at? I don't like I don't sit in one or the other constantly. I mean, you're not, no one's in constant joy mode all day long, right? Like right.

SPEAKER_01 38:16

I would be worried about you.

SPEAKER_00 38:18

I would be worried, yes. But like just like that, it's like you're not sad all day, but you're not like excited all day. Like everybody has moments. There's it's an ebb and flow. And I just think that it's indicative of the grief journey. Like you're gonna have days where you're happier or things are sad.

SPEAKER_01 38:42

I find there's also even in even in the joy, yes, I find there's always a certain level of sadness connected to the joy. Because first of all, there's the there's the beauty of the joy, right? Because I think I appreciate the joy much more now than I did before the loss. And that's in any of the losses that I've experienced. Because you have a greater appreciation for it, right? Yep. Um, but then there's also the oh, here I'm experiencing this joy, and I wish I could share it with you. And so there's there's the sadness.

SPEAKER_00 39:25

Yep. And I think especially in the early days, you become very aware of that partner not being there. Yes. And it, but it does. There are still times to now, even now, when I'm like, I just really want to tell Mike that. I just really wish he could know that, right? And you know, and I talked to him, but it's you know, it's not the same. And it, but it is um, yeah, you we just carry it differently. But whenever there's milestones that happen that are important, uh, there's always there is always a little bit of sadness in that. I mean, you had a lot of those this past year.

SPEAKER_01 40:11

Well, I had a lot of them very recently, too. I mean, Jackson just graduated A school.

SPEAKER_00 40:16

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 40:17

And um big accomplishment. Very happy. Huge. And on the same day that he graduated A school was the five-year anniversary of losing Dennis. So here was, you know, opposite ends of the spectrum, right?

SPEAKER_00 40:35

Um and I'm sure Jackson felt that can I bet he was conflicted too. Like, here I am, my third graduation, and dad's not here.

SPEAKER_01 40:47

And I felt really sad on I was so full of pride, okay. So I at Jackson's boot camp graduation, so proud of him. And like I in my whole life, that that is gonna be like one of the crowning moments, right? Yep. Um, but I did feel very sad because I felt like he should have been there for Jackson, you know, and what would that have meant for Jackson to see his dad in the audience being there for him?

SPEAKER_00 41:19

You know, like yeah, yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 41:23

And I I don't think that will ever change. I think I'm always like someday when he gets married, when the kids get married, or when they have children, or when they have a a big accomplishment at work, or you know, I I always feel for them when something happens, and I wish that he were there for them.

SPEAKER_00 41:44

Yes. Absolutely, absolutely, and I think that that right there is kind of the crux of the connection with people and being able to have those shared experiences because that longing is a an experience that not everyone understands. Absolutely, yeah. And I think it's I mean, I think this has been a great conversation about all of this with a little bit of life thrown in the middle of it, um, which I love. Um, but yeah, I I think I think it definitely there is a connection, and I think um you're not gonna connect on a deep level with everyone you meet that has had a loss, but there are gonna be people that you meet that you're gonna be like, wow, I this is this is my friend, and yeah, that this is we have this connection, but it it goes deeper than that too. So um I definitely think this was a good topic today. Not as heavy as some of them. Yes, yes, yes, heavy, but heavy but not heavy but not as heavy.

SPEAKER_01 42:54

So yeah, I've always kind of like hold when the wheel is spinning, I'm always kind of like holding my breath, like, oh, I hope this is a good one.

SPEAKER_00 43:01

I know, I I know. I wanted to be like, oh, I hope it's a great topic today. And it's like, oh, a great topic. You have a great podcast, woman. What kind of great topic are you hoping for? I guess we should have thrown some fun things in there.

SPEAKER_01 43:19

We can.

SPEAKER_00 43:20

We can read we'll have to, yeah, and we'll add some stuff in there. We'll we'll we'll do a book recommendation episode.

SPEAKER_01 43:30

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_00 43:31

Well, we'll start out with the grief books.

SPEAKER_01 43:37

All right.

Closing Words And Gentle Care

SPEAKER_00 43:38

Oh my goodness. Well, do you want to take us out?

SPEAKER_01 43:42

Okay, if anything has stirred or settled within you during this episode, please know that you don't have to carry it all with you. Take what feels supportive and leave what feels heavy. Thank you for listening and being here with us and for showing up in your own way. We'll meet again soon and in the meantime, be good to yourselves.

SPEAKER_00 44:04

Thank you.