Vulnerability

What happens when safety disappears and the world suddenly feels too big? We explore the messy, necessary role of vulnerability after loss—how it can feel like standing in a storm without a coat, and how it can also be the only path back to joy. From the first shaky steps of doing taxes alone to braving hurricanes, frozen pipes, and unexpected animal encounters, we share the practical and emotional work of rebuilding confidence when every choice feels high stakes.

Together, we map the tension between protection and openness: the same walls that keep hurt out will keep wonder out too. We talk about using balance as a daily practice, not a destination, and choosing words that keep us moving forward while honoring our limits. You’ll hear how honest grief can startle people, why some friends pull away when you tell the truth, and how the Ring Theory helps set boundaries so comfort flows in the right direction. We also examine scams that target widows, energy drains in our social feeds, and ways to protect ourselves without shutting down our hearts.

Parenting through grief—and modeling real feelings—shows up as a powerful teacher. We reflect on letting kids see hard days so they learn their emotions are safe, and we affirm that progress can be as small as one step. Most of all, we reckon with the risk baked into love. Knowing how fragile life is, we still choose to love again, inviting connection with clearer boundaries and steadier courage. If you’re navigating loss and looking for language, tools, and companionship, this conversation offers both clarity and comfort.

If this resonated, follow the show, share it with a friend who needs it, and leave a review so more people can find these conversations. Your story matters—and your one step forward counts.

Transcript

Welcome And Spinning The Wheel

SPEAKER_00 0:01

Hi, welcome to Your Friend in Grief, a podcast for anyone learning who they are after loss. I'm Melinda and I'm here with Melani, and we're so grateful you're here. This is a space where grief is honored, healing is not rushed, and your heart is allowed to feel everything it feels. Milani and I are walking this path with you through honest conversation, shared stories, and the kind of friendship that holds you up on the days you need it most. Hello, friend. Hello, friend. How are you? I'm okay. How are you? I am good. It's been a while. We have uh there's been illness. The flu. Flu has has taken people out, and uh and we're working our way back. So it's I'm glad you're feeling yeah, glad you're feeling better. Yeah, so um all right, I'm gonna hit the wheel and see what we get. And see how we I love this wheel. It's so fun. I love that it's we never know. Vulnerability. Oh, that's what I think when I hear of vulnerability. Ugh. That's a lot. Tell me why. Tell me why you feel that way. Oh, vulnerability, I think, because the immediate gut reaction is weakness. Even though it's not, but it is opening yourself up to all the things, positive and negative. And it's not necessarily, it's not really a weakness. It's just, but it feels very exposed. Like um, you know, when an animal is, you know, sort of cornered. There's that vulnerability. It's just, ooh. So that's my immediate reaction. What is your immediate reaction when you hear vulnerability? Um I'm thinking yours is much more a mature answer. Like you probably have you probably handle this so much better than I do.

SPEAKER_02 2:21

I love how you have this thought of me of being like a certain type of way. I just, you know, I feel like I guess I have an image to uphold.

SPEAKER_00 2:34

I I feel like you've got your shit together. I feel like, like, you know.

SPEAKER_02 2:39

Well, thank you. I take it as a high compliment. It is a compliment.

SPEAKER_00 2:44

It's like, oh, she she's confident in who she is, she's got this, like, ugh. But it's okay if you if and that's okay if you don't feel that way, if you feel vulnerable.

Safety, Loss, And Feeling Exposed

SPEAKER_02 3:01

Um okay, so for me, it it's it's a couple of things. I remember feeling extremely vulnerable when Evan died, when Dennis first died, right? I felt like I'm just like this small little person in this great big world, and like, how am I going to navigate this? I felt very um in our house, we say like naked and afraid. Right. Um Nathan used to say when he was little, like, I I feel like an exposed naked baby. Okay. Right. Yeah. Um, so yeah, it feels very much that to me being vulnerable feels like being exposed. Yeah, I get that. Um and then it it also kind of like is the flip side of that is being exposed is being real.

SPEAKER_01 4:07

Right?

SPEAKER_02 4:08

Being authentic.

SPEAKER_00 4:10

Another thing I think of when I hear vulnerability is I feel the opportunity to be taken advantage of. Like letting your guard down and to outside forces and having to have your guard up not to be vulnerable.

Walls That Block Hurt And Joy

SPEAKER_02 4:31

And so that comes back to our conversation about how the same walls that we build to guard ourselves, to keep things from getting in, to harming us, to making us feel vulnerable and exposed, right? Are the same walls that will keep out moments of joy and love and peace, um, and all the things that you know kind of make our hearts soar. So yes, it's there's a fine line there, right? And you it's knowing like when do I when do I open up that gate and let some stuff in or out, right?

SPEAKER_00 5:19

Yeah, and in my head, I'm laughing because in my head, I know that you and I have talked about our personal words for the year, and one of mine, this is the year of the horse, right? We came out of the year of the snake where we were shedding, and then the horse is momentum, right? It is forward, forward, all the things, right? But I keep hearing in my head, and I feel like this should be like part of our words of the year, balance. Yes, it's that balance of having enough wall up, but yet being able to allow the positive things in and the beautiful things in. Right. And I think we lack balance in all of our lives. Sure. Easily. The world is fast and furious, and work. You gotta work, work, work, work, work. And I, you know, I work to live, I don't live to work. When Mike and I were together, we worked our butts off and we kind of lived to work, but together, right? For one goal. But after Mike, I'm like, uh uh, no.

SPEAKER_02 6:26

Well, you know, Dennis was my protector, right? He was the head of our family, he was my protector, he was our um financially. He provided more than I did. Same. Um, and I mean he really kind of set it up so that I I didn't really have to worry about anything. I know it was the same thing for you, right?

SPEAKER_01 6:54

Yep.

Words Of The Year And Balance

SPEAKER_02 6:54

Um and losing him meant I lost a lot of my security, a lot of what made me feel safe. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 7:08

Is being vulnerable the opposite of being safe? In some ways it feels, yes. Every right, Mike made me feel safe in every aspect of my life.

SPEAKER_02 7:19

Right. Um, so yeah, I mean that that's that's why I felt very vulnerable, right? When um initially when Dennis passed. When Evan died, it was more like, oh my god. Like, I never imagined that something so awful could happen. And here, it happened. Like, right, did I did it was I not guarded enough? Did I let my guard down for too long? Like, was I not protected? Like, what happened?

SPEAKER_00 7:56

Right, yeah, right, no, and that makes complete sense. And I think it's funny because vulnerability has both positive and negative connotations. Yes, vulnerability being open enough to have these kinds of conversations together and with the world, it's a positive vulnerability, but then it's also the fear of the vulnerability and being afraid and maybe being taken advantage of or exposing yourself to not being safe, not feeling safe. And I think that you're it it really is a balance, it's a matter of and I one of the things that happens when you lose a spouse is you most people I would say, maybe not everyone, you lose your confidence in who you were, in where you are in the world. And um I think that's something that you have to work towards again. But I don't, and I think it's very hard to be vulnerable when you are not confident.

SPEAKER_02 9:06

Yes, I would agree.

Confidence Shaken And Slowly Rebuilt

SPEAKER_00 9:08

And uh for me, I think the past year has probably been the first year that I've felt more confident than I have in the past five and a half, almost six years, right? That's it was a turning point for sure. But the vulnerability, there's still I still feel it from time to time in the negative way. Um what other ways do you see vulnerability in grief? I see it with people who you want to be vulnerable with, who are friends, who are afraid to hear your grief or to afraid to witness it.

SPEAKER_02 10:00

Yes. Because it's uncomfortable. Um because maybe they don't know how to sit with you in it. Um and so that just kind of leaves you like you've put yourself out there and you've been exposed, but nobody to kind of like help you carry that or just to acknowledge it. Just to know that they are there, like to witness it.

SPEAKER_00 10:33

Yeah, to witness it. Right.

SPEAKER_02 10:35

Um yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:36

And and I think I think when that happens with friends, you become a little I don't know, I can't think of the word right now, but you become very skittish.

unknown 10:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:50

About I mean it's kind of like you're flapping in the wind, right?

SPEAKER_00 10:53

Like, oh, she's kind of left me hanging. Right. Like I don't I was vulnerable in this relationship, trying to like, hey, and then that ooh, kind of that, ooh, I don't yeah, and then you're like, okay, well, maybe I shouldn't be vulnerable anymore. Right. Maybe I shouldn't open myself up and tell people what I'm really thinking that, you know, that I'm still hurting, or you know, any of those things.

SPEAKER_01 11:21

Mm-hmm.

Friends Who Can’t Witness Grief

SPEAKER_02 11:24

The other thing that it brings up for me too is I feel like where I am at in my grief journey. Um I feel like I am more of me, of who I am, to my core than I've ever been. Right? I feel like I I am the fully expressed version of myself. Um I don't think I could get to this spot without allowing myself to be vulnerable. My word for that for this year is sovereign. So I really I really want to stand in the things that um I know are good and not good for me, and like recognize them and do away with the stuff that I don't really need to be tethered to anymore and lean into those things that bring me joy, the things that make my heart soar. Yeah. Um and really like being authentic to myself. And how how do you get there without really kind of stripping some of the stuff back and taking a look, right? Yeah, and that involves being vulnerable, you know. I and I've really wanted to like lean into that and and take from that be courageous, right? To step into myself.

SPEAKER_00 13:05

Yeah, so I think you I think you've done that.

SPEAKER_02 13:08

I absolutely I mean, I had to be very intentional about it. Um that's that stuff is not easy to do. No, it's not. But I I do think that what has allowed me to come to that space is really having the opportunity to share what I'm feeling, to share my thoughts without having somebody look at me like I'm crazy. You know, like I can say anything to you, and you're like, oh, okay. Yeah. That's you're like, that's good.

SPEAKER_00 13:49

Likewise, likewise, you know, two big trips to the bookstore, and you aren't like, do you think you have enough books? Right. No judgment. It's like, that's what she needs to get through the next six months, and that's what she needs to do to get through the next six months.

SPEAKER_02 14:06

Right. Well, at this rate, it will be shorter than six months if we keep up our reading rate, right?

SPEAKER_00 14:15

Those are the glimmers, the glimmers of joy. And also, can I just say it is absolutely swirling snow outside. Oh my. And I'm like, it is it's a beautiful thing. And I'm as a northerner, it's kind of nice.

SPEAKER_02 14:31

Okay, so that brings up a memory for me. I remember, you know, in the south, we deal with hurricanes, right? Hurricane season. June to November. The very first hurricane that we had after Dennis died, I was like, oh my god, we're gonna get blown away. Like, literally, our house is going to flood, the wind is gonna take us, like, we're not gonna make it through this hurricane. Like, what difference would it have made whether Dennis was there or not? But that's what I was thinking.

SPEAKER_01 15:06

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_02 15:06

Right? I felt very vulnerable.

Everyday Fears And Solo Decisions

SPEAKER_00 15:09

So I've never owned a home by myself before. I have that thought every time an appliance doesn't work, or it's just a breaker, or like I'm now on very good terms with, oh, why isn't the dishwasher working? Well, let me go check the breaker. Right. Now I am. But I've been in this house, it'll be five years in July. And there's still shit that makes me crazy. Right. Like, oh my god, what am I gonna do? It's less, but it's still there. Because he was the safety. He was the, but I'm very vulnerable to, you know. What the fuck happens if I get a pipe burst?

unknown 16:05

Right.

SPEAKER_00 16:06

Because it's, you know, 10 degrees outside. Right. So, you know, all the faucets are dripping. I don't care how big my water bill is gonna be. The cats love it. But it's like, okay. Yeah. You know, but there's that fear. Yes. It's so much fear. Mm-hmm. It's it it it definitely has changed. But yes, the hurricane preparation, the you know, oh my god, are the pipes gonna freeze? Oh my god, it's gonna snow. Like, I mean, you know, even even the having a coyote in my backyard last weekend, part of it was like, holy crap. When I went to go bring down the bird feeder, I was like, is there a coyote around? Like, what am I gonna do? I knew there wasn't, but at the same time, I was a little hesitant. And it's just like Mike would know what to do. Mike would not have known what to do. He'd never fed a coyote before, but still in my head, Mike knew all knew everything. Yes. So, and there's that confidence thing again, too, right? It's hard to be vulnerable if you're not confident. Yes. And I think, yeah, and it's I don't know about you, but after Mike died, I don't think I could it was like I didn't know how to do anything.

SPEAKER_02 17:36

Yeah, I felt like that a lot too, and that I really had to, at some point it had to be like, um, there's so much you can do. There was a ton of stuff that I was doing that Dennis was not doing, right? I mean, so yes, it's remembering, recognizing that you are capable, that there are things that you can do. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 18:00

Yeah. Because you forget very quickly that you were a grown-ass woman that he chose to be with because you were a grown ass woman managing your shit. Right. And then it's like, wait, what? I don't know how to do a thing.

SPEAKER_02 18:21

And admitting that you can't possibly do anything.

SPEAKER_00 18:25

Like, oh, uh damsel in distress, like what the fuck? Like, honestly.

SPEAKER_02 18:30

I think some of it was also like overwhelm, like just feeling like, oh my, like the smallest thing was like a big thing, right?

SPEAKER_00 18:37

Um, yeah. Yeah. But again, it takes vulnerability to acknowledge admit that now. Yes. I felt like a 10-year-old or 14-year-old, like I didn't feel like I could do anything. Yes. And that every decision I was making was wrong. And I think that that's just part of it. Mm-hmm. It is. It takes a while. It does. I mean Am I making all the right decisions? Uh maybe not, but I'm making them.

SPEAKER_02 19:08

There, but there's yeah, I that was one of my big fears was that I would make a wrong decision. Like what like every decision was so important. And what if what if I made the wrong decision? Like we just couldn't come back from it, right? And some of it is like, uh, so you just shift. You made a wrong decision. Right. Do it differently, you know. Yeah.

Overwhelm, Wrong Choices, And Adjusting

SPEAKER_00 19:33

And a little was it a little over a year? Maybe it was like 18 months. I had to deal with Milo's health issues and figuring out what was going on with him and his cancer and his tumors, and having to put him down was the hard oh my god. That was the hardest. Like, because I'm like, it was falling on me. And I'm like, did I wait too long? Did I not wait long enough? Like, what did I uh like the whole questioning of everything? And there are some decisions that are important to make, like that, that you have to make, but but when the smallest of decisions feel like life and death is it's a really hard thing to sort of come to grips with.

SPEAKER_02 20:24

Yeah, it is, and it's um extremely overwhelming.

SPEAKER_00 20:28

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 20:29

Yeah, uh, I felt a lot of resentment having to be the one to the having to be the decider. Yeah, the sole decider. I did feel a lot of resentment about that.

SPEAKER_00 20:42

I'm still resentful every year I have to file my own taxes. Yes, I get that too. Every year. Not a question. I'm like, not a question.

SPEAKER_02 20:52

You're doing great though. Can I tell you you are doing great?

Compounded Grief In A Chaotic World

SPEAKER_00 20:56

And I even uploaded a document to my HR Block specialist. Not that we're not sponsored, but I did that this morning. And so, you know, we're we're great. I've already had a meeting with her, I'm on the right track. I just gotta gather the things now. Yes. And it's fine. But yes, I've made progress. I've put it in someone else's hands. And that's that's a beautiful thing. Yes. That's a beautiful thing. Um, but you know, it is, I think, you know, when we lost our spouses, it was in the middle of COVID, and the world was heavy then. I think the world is heavier now, and I can't imagine feeling all those things on top of what people are feeling now, right? You know, it's like it's compounded grief for sure. And everything feels uncertain, everything feels chaotic, and grief puts you into that spiral anyway. So So even though it was COVID and stuff, at least I knew, well, just isolate yourself, right? You'll be fine. Like you didn't know all the things, but you could ice, it was only one big thing for the most part. But now it feels like it's everything. And so I feel like people who are grieving now, recent losses, I feel like people are really probably struggling even more.

SPEAKER_01 22:23

I think so.

SPEAKER_00 22:24

With the compounded grief. And I think that it's important for them, just like we talked on our last episode, that you recognize that in yourself. Recognize that this is hard. This is hard in a regular day when the world is perfect.

unknown 22:46

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 22:46

When the world is on fire, it's harder. It's not you're not imagining it. No.

SPEAKER_02 22:53

I mean, it just feels like insanity out there, right?

One Step Forward Amid Setbacks

SPEAKER_00 22:57

Like I it's kind of endless, so yeah. And I'm I would really like to get back to precedented times instead of unprecedented times. Right. I'm not sure we're ever going to get back to that. Sorry. That's should have turned that on mute. Sorry, folks. Real life. It's real life. Yes. That's where we're at right now. No big deal. No big deal. But I definitely feel like it's important for our listeners to know that it's okay to feel like this is hard. And some days you don't necessarily feel that you can climb up that mountain. And it's not about climbing up the mountain, it's about taking that step. Absolutely. Just that one step forward. And it's okay if you take two steps forward and one step back. It's okay. That it totally is. You have to take care of yourself and to find that balance of being vulnerable when you need to be, but also putting those, having those walls up when you need to protect yourself from outside sources, media, people who don't necessarily see you. Because that's an energy drain. And I I felt that a lot. I felt that I I felt because I have been a very open, I've been very open about Mike's death since day one. I did, I mean, I didn't even say Mike passed away. I said he died. And I think that was part of me having to convince myself. And I think that I scared a lot of people by that. I think they were very, I was being very vulnerable, and I think a lot of people kind of retracted from that. They just kind of were like, oh, oh. Because you don't, you don't want to talk about it. It's uncomfortable. So I think in a way I pushed people away a little bit because of my honesty and vulnerability with that. And I'm okay with that because the people that stayed are still here. And there are even more new people. But it's it's hard when you're in that moment.

SPEAKER_02 25:34

Right. It is. I mean, you want to clear out the dust, yeah. Go through a loss. You will quickly figure out who's gonna stay for the long run and who's just gonna turn in the opposite direction.

Honesty That Scares People Away

SPEAKER_00 25:53

Absolutely. And I think some of it is some there were some people I think in my life that wanted me that wanted to grieve with me. And I wasn't ready to do that on day one. I couldn't be that for them.

SPEAKER_02 26:09

Right. Like I I didn't have a problem with grieving with people, but I there I didn't have the capacity to make somebody else feel better because I felt like garbage.

SPEAKER_00 26:22

Yep. And when that happened to me, I got angry. Yes. When when they didn't recognize, when they wanted to grieve as much with me, I got angry.

SPEAKER_02 26:33

Which is kind of like I feel bad for that because I needed somebody to sit with me, to witness with me. And that's what that person needed too. And I couldn't give it to them.

SPEAKER_00 26:49

No, I couldn't give it to them either. And the reason I couldn't is because I was making all the phone calls telling everyone that my kid died. And I had to stay strong for that. For those that moment in time.

SPEAKER_02 27:02

Yeah. And I think I mean even beyond the initial days, right? Like there were just. Can I tell you how hard that is to do when you are a grieving mom?

SPEAKER_00 27:12

Oh, I can't even.

SPEAKER_02 27:13

And you still have a kid to take care of?

SPEAKER_00 27:15

Oh, I can't even imagine, Melanie.

SPEAKER_02 27:18

Not that I'm saying one loss is greater than the other.

SPEAKER_00 27:22

I'm not saying that at all. But when you I'm grateful I didn't have to keep children alive. It took everything to keep the cats alive. Right. How do you keep a human alive too?

SPEAKER_02 27:34

Yeah. It's really hard. Because you have your days where you feel like shit. And they have their days where they feel like shit. And sometimes all they need is just a hug and somebody to say, I know you feel like shit. Right. I'm sorry you feel like shit. Come here, let me love on you. And that's really hard to do when you feel like shit.

SPEAKER_00 27:58

Yeah, I can't I can't imagine. I mean, that's yeah, that's a lot. That's an a lot to to handle and to process.

Parenting Through Grief And Modeling Feelings

SPEAKER_02 28:09

It is. It is. Um I I'm still like amazed that my kids made it through.

SPEAKER_00 28:20

They did they did more than just make it through. I mean, they're they're thriving and really incredible humans.

SPEAKER_02 28:26

So yes, they are spectacular, magnificent human beings, amazing examples of what it is to be a good human being.

SPEAKER_00 28:36

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And you know, I I'm guessing that you had to put a lot of your grief aside at times in order to take care of them.

SPEAKER_02 28:46

And I did because what a parent is supposed to do, right? Yeah. Right. Um, I also tried to be because I did what I never wanted to do was hide when I was feeling bad. Right. Because I always wanted them to have the space to come to me and say, like, I'm having a bad day. I feel bad. And if you work at covering it up yourself, then how do you expect your children to express their feelings, right?

SPEAKER_00 29:14

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 29:16

Um, but yeah, like having just because there would just be days where I'd be like white and exhausted and just having anything.

SPEAKER_00 29:25

Right. I I can't even imagine. I I can't imagine how because I remember those days when I could barely get out of bed. And it was like scoop the litter box, feed the cats. That was it. That was as much as I could do. And um, yeah, I couldn't imagine, and I've said it before, I couldn't imagine having keeping humans alive. We did it though. Yes, Toby's still here. Toby is still here. God love him. And he, you know, he went through the biggest loss with Mike because Mike was his person. And when I would cry, he would come and sit with me. And so I need to remember that. Well, now that he has, as we've named it. Catheimers. He clearly has catheimers, and um, you know, it's okay. He's gonna be 17, and uh the catheimers has gotten him, so I need to be more patient with him because he was very patient with me. So it's that's my lesson there that I need to be better to him uh and not yell at him of when he's crawling all over me during a meeting or podcast. Like it's okay.

SPEAKER_02 30:43

Yeah, there's there is no um understanding of the personal space. No.

Boundaries, Scams, And The Ring Theory

SPEAKER_00 30:49

No, no, you've you've you've seen it uh firsthand, and it's you know, but yeah, and I you know, I think being vulnerable is it's important, but it's also important to protect yourself. And in the first couple of years, I don't think I don't know that I could have really deciphered when I should have the walls up and when I should have the walls down. And I think that's important for people to recognize in themselves that you may feel like you're putting up a wall when you shouldn't be putting up a wall. And you know, a lot of widows get scammed into like giving money to people because they want to feel loved and they, you know, so I think there's a balance there, but I think the friends of people who are grieving just understand that they just they don't want you to fix anything, they just want you to witness, um, witness their vulnerability, not don't ask them to grieve with you or to console you. That's a very tough thing for anyone to do in the early days of grief. Um and it's that circle of grief, right? You have to start with the person, and then you've got the the circles, uh, you know, rings outside, and each ring can go in one, or you can go out one, but you can't go in. You can go out, like the person who's grieving can go out, but they the person next to them cannot go in to look for support. And I think that that's a really great diagram to talk, you know, to have for people who are trying to support people who are grieving. It's like, where do you fit within that circle? And you can't go in, you can go out to that next level of acquaintance or whatever, but you can't go in. And I I think that's important for people to recognize. And I think I think as people talk more about grief, I hope that people will feel more at ease being vulnerable.

SPEAKER_02 33:01

Well, you know, it's a scary thing. Something else that just came up for me, too, is um with great risk also comes great reward, right?

SPEAKER_00 33:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 33:16

And um, I am very much aware that I can lose anyone that I love.

SPEAKER_00 33:29

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 33:32

It and I don't mean to be morbid about that, but that's reality. Right? Um I think that you have to allow yourself a certain level of vulnerability to continue to love, to expand your love circle, to know that you're gonna love this person, and if they go before you, you're gonna be heartbroken.

Risk, Reward, And Loving Again

SPEAKER_00 34:03

Yeah, yeah, absolutely, and that requires a lot of vulnerability. Yes, it really does, and yeah, but I think it's an important thing to acknowledge. Yes. And I have been asked in the past, aren't you gonna be sad when something happens to your parents? Um, and I was like, sure, but I expect to outlive my parents. The natural course of things. The natural course of things. Which doesn't lessen it doesn't lessen it at all. But it is one of those things that in life I think we should recognize that that will happen. In the natural course, if it's in the natural course of things, if something crazy doesn't happen. Um, you know, just like pets, you know, these are my babies, and they're a part of my life, but I'm their entire life. Yes. They will live their entire life with me. Right. And that's, you know, it's all important when you start thinking about those things. But it's not, I mean, it's not morbid to think about it. It's it's realistic. And it doesn't take away from it being upsetting or hard or you know, the feeling of loss. It's just it's just one of those things that I think we probably have. Anybody who's grieving probably has a stronger feeling and understanding of that than most.

SPEAKER_02 35:44

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 35:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 35:46

I think so. Our feelers feel strongly.

SPEAKER_00 35:50

Yes, absolutely. What would you say as sort of a last note about vulnerability that you would want to leave our listeners with?

Final Reflections And Closing

SPEAKER_02 35:59

Um I would just remind them that the same walls that we build to keep stuff from getting in from hurting us are the same walls that will prevent us from feeling joy. That's from having those um ever-so important relationships. And I would say lean into it because I think our greatest moments of transformation and existing are when we feel our most uncomfortable, and being vulnerable is very much an uncomfortable feeling. So lean into it. Um, Brene Brown will say, Stay brave. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:50

Lean into it. Yeah, and that's a hard thing to do, but I think it's an important, it's an important thing to remember for sure. Awesome. I think we'll uh wrap up the conversation there, leaving the listeners with that as the last thought. Sounds good.

SPEAKER_02 37:06

Awesome. Um, if anything has stirred or is settled within you during this episode, uh keep whatever you feel comfortable keeping, offload whatever is heavy, and know that um there's no right or wrong way. And we're so glad you were here with us.

SPEAKER_00 37:27

Absolutely. Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 37:28

All right, bye, friend. Be good to yourselves.