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Your Friend In Grief
A safe space for conversations around grief and loss. Bringing these conversations out of the darkness and into the light.
Your Friend In Grief
Enough, On Our Own Terms
The word “enough” can cut and comfort in the same breath. We explore both sides—drawing a firm line with I’ve had enough of other people’s grief timelines, and wrestling with the quieter fear of am I enough to carry this life on my own. From tiny wins like feeding the cats to the heavy logistics of funerals during COVID, we trade honest stories that honor the mess, the beauty, and the contradictions of mourning.
You’ll hear how a weighted‑vest metaphor reframed daily expectations, why speaking our loved ones’ names isn’t “being stuck,” and how control can split into two coping selves: the taskmaster who does it all and the rebel who says screw it and eats ice cream in bed. We talk about guilt’s persistent what‑ifs—Did I do enough? Should I have pushed harder?—and how the rational mind and the grieving heart rarely align on a neat timeline. Anchoring moments emerge: a simple silver bracelet left by a stranger that became a talisman, a teacher who planted a tree so a mother had a place to sit with her boy’s memory, and friends who helped by folding laundry in silence or dropping Oreos at the door.
If you’re supporting someone in grief, you’ll find practical guidance: don’t ask how to help, offer something specific—DoorDash, Instacart, packing boxes, childcare, rides. If you’re grieving, you’ll find permission to set your own bar for the day and call it enough without apology. Over time, sufficiency expands from survival to simple contentment: a rainy day, a good book, a show in the background, pets nearby, and the freedom to tell your story on your terms. Subscribe, share with someone who needs gentleness, and leave a review with one small “enough” you claimed this week.
Welcome to Your Friend in Grief, a podcast for anyone learning who they are after loss. I'm Melinda and I'm here with Milani, and we're so grateful you're here too. We've created a space where grief is honored, healing is not rushed, and your heart is allowed to feel everything it feels.
SPEAKER_03:We're walking this path with you through honest conversations, the shared stories, and the kind of friendship that holds you on the days when you need it the most.
SPEAKER_00:Hi, friend, how are you?
SPEAKER_03:Hello, friend.
SPEAKER_00:How are you today? I'm good. How are you? I am good. I'm good. I'm this is like our first full episode of the podcast after the intro. So this is fun stuff. Um we do have our topic for today, the category. The category is the inner work, and I am randomly, this is the wheel with the topic, and I am going to start it. So we don't know what the topic of today's podcast is going to be. We're going to find out together, and it's probably going to terrify us. Oh, what is the topic, Milani?
SPEAKER_03:Well, the category is okay, enough.
SPEAKER_00:Enough is the topic today. The inner work is the category and enough. So, what is the first thing that you think of when you hear enough?
SPEAKER_03:Um, I kind of toggle between two things. Uh, the first thing that jumps into my head is like I've had enough of other people telling me how I should be and what I should do. Um, you know, for a topic that's so uncomfortable for people to talk about, everybody's an expert on what you should or should not be doing.
SPEAKER_00:A hundred percent. And I'm gonna go to my little reaction here. And yes, yes, we're gonna do the little celebrating horn and the applause because yes.
SPEAKER_03:Right. Uh-huh. Yeah. Um, and then in the other part of it, which I immediately think is am I enough? Am I strong enough to get through this? Have I done enough? Um, do I want to do more to be enough? You know, the it's it's like you have some standards to me. I don't know what those standards are, but there's they're there.
SPEAKER_00:Enough is a very heavy word. Like it is, and I feel the same as you. I've had enough of people telling me, don't get stuck in grief, don't be stuck, are you stuck in grief? I'm worried you're stuck in grief. Why? Because I talk about Mike? Like enough, people. Right. I'm never not gonna talk about him. He's he was a part of my life. He lived, he was here, and then he was gone. And if I don't remember him, who else is there to remember him? If I don't keep his memory alive, right? And enough? I always feel like I haven't done enough, I haven't been enough, I haven't become enough. And that I think really probably highlighted the first three or four years of my grief journey. And it just it doesn't change overnight. No, it doesn't. And you know, I have said before that I feel like grief is like one of those weighted vests that you walk with, like it's a 20-pound vest. And when you first put it on and you've never had it before, you walk and it is the heaviest thing you've ever had to carry. But then as you carry it every day, it feels lighter. It hasn't gotten lighter. No, it's the same weight, but you have changed. Yes, you have sort of grown stronger around it, and that's how I feel about grief. And you don't it you don't ever get over it. You don't all you can do is get through it. And some days I felt like some days it was enough to just get up and feed the cats. And I think that that's okay, that some days enough doesn't have to be a long to-do list. Right. It can be a little list of let me survive today.
SPEAKER_03:Absolutely. Yep. There's and so there are those those standards, whether they're self-imposed or not, right? Because somebody from the outside looking in might be like, oh my God, all she did was get out of bed just to feed the cats today. And she spent the rest of the day in bed, right? And meanwhile, you're thinking, wow, I got out of bed and fed the cats today. That's enough for today, right?
SPEAKER_00:I gotta I gotta go lay down.
SPEAKER_02:It's a lot. That was so much work. Yes.
SPEAKER_00:And I think that that's what people don't necessarily we, you know, we're all too hard on ourselves. We're our our own harshest critic. And I think that people don't recognize that sometimes just getting up is enough.
SPEAKER_03:Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, um, you know, you and I are are each other's greatest champion, right? And so I might have a day where I say, Oh my gosh, all I did was get up and feed the dogs and let them out today. And you would be like, that's great.
SPEAKER_02:You got that done. You got out of bed today. The dogs got fed. Yes.
SPEAKER_00:Yes. And I'm like, well, I slept until 10 and then I fed the cats and scooped litter boxes, and then I actually cleaned the kitchen. Like, right, but I'm ready to go back to bed after I have some food. And that's okay. Yes. And I think that that's understanding what's enough for you at that moment in time. Don't let others judge you by what is enough because it's never gonna be enough for some people.
SPEAKER_03:And I think I you know, you could die under the weight of other people's judgments and opinions, right? So um we could die under the weight of our own judgments and opinions, to be honest.
SPEAKER_00:Yep.
SPEAKER_03:But yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, but I love the way you were like enough, because it can be enough or it can be enough. And there are some things like people not wanting, and we kind of touched on this last time, but people not really wanting me to talk about Mike or you know, feeling uncomfortable with it, which I do think it's a little bit of rebellion that I'm kind of like, yeah, Mike died.
SPEAKER_03:I love that.
SPEAKER_00:And I kind of hear him laughing in my head. Like, get it, hon. Get him. Right. Like, I just, yeah, there's there's a little bit in me. And you know, I'm not perfect. I have things to work on for myself, but I do believe that that's yeah, I think it's a little bit of rebellion. Now, it's not rebellion when I say that to everyone, because I also am also very like when I'm meeting people, whether it's through work or you know, other people, just brand new people, I'm like, well, I lost my husband in 2020, you know, I'm widowed, it's been different. Like, I want to share my story because I also don't want people to I want to control the narrative. I want to be able to control that and not have people go, oh, well, does your husband because I live in a retirement community, it's a 55 plus community. It's like, oh, does your husband live here with you? Right. I don't I want to be able to control and say, well, I lost my husband, I lost my husband, and you know, this is the situation.
SPEAKER_03:Um when you said control, so do you feel like since losing Mike, that you have a need to have more control, or is it the opposite where you're like, I control nothing, so I'm just kind of letting it go.
SPEAKER_00:So I've okay, so this is this is kind of a weird thing. Um it's a great question, though. I I love this question, and I love that this is unscripted so that it likes the honest. I'm a Gemini and I've never felt like I was a dual personality. I've never, everybody's like, oh, Geminis are dual personalities. I've never felt that until Mike died. So now there's the side of me that's like, I'm in charge, I gotta get this shit done, I gotta do it, I can't rest. There's no time to read a book, you gotta do this, you gotta do that. And then there's the other part of me that's like, hey, let's have ice cream in bed, sleep all day, and spend money. And those are the two sides of me. So it's the control and the being pissed off that I'm now in charge of everything, and the side of me that's like, okay, you're in control. Do whatever the fuck you want. Oh, yeah. So it's two ends of the spectrum, right? I feel like I'm finally coming into my Gemini personalities. Own it, baby, own it. I'm either very controlled and you get no fun, you've got to do all the work, it's you've got to keep moving, you gotta keep pushing, or fuck it. Let's just spend some money. Right. Let's buy five more books that you know to go on your TBR where you already have like 10 others that you haven't read. Absolutely. That's a whole different episode. Yeah, the yeah, that's we need to add that to the wheel of smut. I always wanted to do an episode of called called Smut, Whatever Gets You Through the Night.
SPEAKER_02:Right.
SPEAKER_00:Because I never read Smut before Mike died. Oh man. So that's a whole nother topic. But but I do feel like having to be in control, I get very resentful. And it's just like, it's enough. I don't want any more. I don't want any more. I don't want to be the one making all the decisions. I don't want to be the only one taking care of myself and the cats. And, you know, okay, well, you gotta eat, somebody's gotta make dinner, you gotta do the dishes, somebody's gotta clean them up, somebody's gotta take the garbage out, somebody's gotta take care of the laundry, somebody's gotta do this. And it's like, it's just fucking enough already. Yes. How do you balance that with control? How do you feel? Um okay, well, I'm still working on that.
SPEAKER_03:Well, you you saw how I handle it, so you know if I'm being completely honest, I I think I think some of this is weird, right? I don't know how to articulate this. So some of the control factor is letting go of the control.
SPEAKER_00:Yes.
SPEAKER_03:Um, so that's where it's me saying, I'm not gonna worry about it. Like whatever happens, happens. But in essence, I am controlling that, right?
SPEAKER_00:By not controlling it, yes.
SPEAKER_03:Right.
SPEAKER_00:It's the mind game that we play with ourselves.
SPEAKER_03:Listen, I I think it's like whatever I need to do to get through, right?
SPEAKER_00:Yes.
SPEAKER_03:Um, right, wrong, or indifferent. Um but I I am so painfully aware of that there are so many things we don't control. So when we talk about enough, like what a lot of things that ran through my head in the early days of um, especially with losing Evan, was did I do enough as a mother, as his guardian? Um the circumstances around the day that he died, you know, like did I do and could I have done more to prevent his death? And I really felt a lot of the same thing when Dennis died because he had been sick. And I always think, like, did I do enough? Did should I have pushed him more to go to the doctor? Should I have said enough? You're you've been sick for a week straight throwing up. Like, yeah, we need to do more, you know. So um and of course, there's like the rational side of you that says, of course you did enough. Like, what more could you have done? You're not a doctor. You you couldn't have prevented this from happening, you couldn't have predicted it was gonna happen. And if you even if you could, you would have done everything in your power to prevent it, right? Um so yeah, I mean, rationally in my head, I know, but what the heart f feels is is different.
SPEAKER_00:Absolutely, yeah, absolutely, and I get that, and it's you know, even with Mike, like he got up to go for his walk. I didn't get up with him that morning. I was still in bed, I'd stayed up reading, and I was just kind of like, I was like, I heard him leave, but I couldn't open my eyes. I didn't even say goodbye. And it's like, should I have stopped him from doing all the things he was doing to get the house ready to sell? Should I have pushed harder? Should I have and it's all the same things, but in a different context. But it's still, did I do enough? Should I have done more? What else could I have done? And it's it's that that will just destroy you. Absolutely. Doesn't matter how they died. He had a massive heart attack. You know, I think so many things could have contributed to it. Stress, it was 2020, it was COVID, like the world was imploding at that time. And I think all of that just really took a toll on him. And I don't know that anything else could have changed what happened. I don't think anything would have changed what happened. I think it was meant to happen.
SPEAKER_03:Oh, that's can we write that down? Because that's a that's a good topic to put on the wheel, like fate and destiny, like that kind of thing.
SPEAKER_00:Like yes, yes, I'm gonna make a note of that because we do need to do that, absolutely. Um, it's gonna go right next to smut. We're gonna put smut and destiny right next to each other on the wheel. No, there should be a whole like forbidden pleasures category. Oh, I love that. I love that. Um and some of it is, you know, uh buying enough leggings so you don't have to do laundry for three weeks. Hey, what whatever works, right? It is I love that. I love that. Um, but yeah, and I think I think that we put too much pressure on ourselves that we have the expectations of others too, of like, are they gonna think I'm enough? Are they gonna think like, you know, there's so many more pressures when it's just you and you're when you're now the only one financially responsible for your household?
SPEAKER_03:Yes, oh I I totally get that because I felt like because I st I still had Jackson at home, right? Jackson was turning 13 and um it was like could I be enough to fill the role of both parents to be mother and father? Um yeah. And can I just say ridiculous amount of unnecessary pressure to put on oneself, but yes.
SPEAKER_00:But can I say you did have done an incredible job? He's an amazing young man. He's such a good human. He's a good boy. He came out of the womb that way. He just he's an unbelievably good human, and I can't wait to see where he goes in this lifetime because it's gonna be amazing.
SPEAKER_03:Thank you. Thank you.
SPEAKER_00:But you were more than enough, and you did an incredible job.
SPEAKER_03:And right, but at the time, I you like I can look back and say, yeah, I can be proud now that I did it. Um, but I I tell everybody also that I didn't raise that boy alone. He had an amazing father for the first 13 years of his life. So he had an amazing foundation, right? Right. And I can't take all that credit.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. But it is, I think, especially in the early days, what is enough, it changes, right? Like absolutely, that evolves over time. It does evolve. And, you know, uh in the first few days, it was enough to just get up. Right. And take care of the cats. And I had people with me for the first two weeks. Um I had some some really incredible family that stayed with me that helped me because obviously I was moving out of my house. And um my cousin's incredible, and she absolutely like we'll talk more about her um when we'll we'll talk about my cousin and Megan, and um, we'll talk about my cousin and Taylor Swift at some point because they kind of both brought me back to life and were able to help me during a time when I couldn't do anything and I needed so much help and I didn't know how much I needed. And um, you know, my cousin helped me pack up Mike's bedroom, like the clothes out of his closet, his his office bedroom that we had for him, his office. She helped me pack up his bathroom and his closet, and I could not have done that on my own. There was just no way. Um and it was it was nice to have people that cared that were there and understood that she has no idea what she's doing. She needs people, right?
SPEAKER_02:And you know would you do you think it people expected you to know what you were doing?
SPEAKER_00:Well, I think that I felt responsible for everything. Like I had again, enough, like did I honor Mike enough, right? When um we didn't he and I had talked about plans, we didn't have everything set in stone, he was Jewish. Um the the running joke between he and I was if he if his mom dies before him, he wanted to be cremated. But if he is if he died before his mom, he was he goes, You're gonna have to bury me, babe. And um then later we had the conversation where he's like, Go, I want to be buried, right? So in the Jewish faith, he died on a Monday morning and um Thursday night, Thursday we had his service and I flew him, we flew him to New York, and he was interred on Friday in a Jewish cemetery. So Monday to Friday, right? It was very quick. I felt that it was my responsibility that I called every person that we knew and tell them. Like I had friends going, Well, who can I call? Who and I'm like, no. No, I have to call. I have to call. And that was the pressure that I put on myself to be responsible for all of that. And I don't know if that's because Mike and I were we had a very small friend group. It was mainly us. Like it was he and I thousand percent, like all the time, like 90% of the time, it was just he and I. And I don't know if that was where I Felt that responsibility for it. But yeah, some of it I I had to relinquish some control. And I did some control. But I felt like I think I did have to have some of that control.
SPEAKER_01:Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_00:In I guess taking responsibility for that.
SPEAKER_03:Right.
SPEAKER_00:So I don't know if that really falls into the enough category, but I definitely felt like I had to do more. And I had to like, even in that one, even in that first day, I had to do what I could to honor him. So yeah, I had to do enough to make him, you know, to show how much I loved him and proud, you know, that he made to make him proud.
SPEAKER_03:Right. Um yeah, I kind of felt like that with Dennis's service too, because it was COVID time and we were allowed a maximum of 10 people in for his service. Yes. Um, you know, and that pretty much was all the people who came when Dennis died. Yeah. There really wasn't room for anybody else. And it wasn't something that I felt like I wanted to do one of those live services on because I it just felt kind of showy.
SPEAKER_00:I don't uh right.
SPEAKER_03:Um understand, yeah. And so I like if had we not been in the time of COVID, it would have been a completely different experience.
SPEAKER_00:Right.
SPEAKER_03:Right.
SPEAKER_00:And I will tell you, we did a zoom, we did a zoom service. There were like a handful of us in the funeral home, but we did a doom a Zoom service because Mike was originally from New York. So he had friends all over the country, and it was like the only way for them to see, to be a part of it, right? So but it was there was no showing of the body, like it was he was already in, you know, in the box, you know, a plain pine box. So you didn't really see anything, it was just the rabbi talking. Right.
SPEAKER_03:So um yeah, so that all that always felt a little bit did I do enough for his service, but those were the choices that I was given too. So you know, even if I had wanted more, um if I had had the capacity for more, I should say, I I I don't know that, you know, it would have been an option.
SPEAKER_00:Right. Yeah, I you know that's an interesting thing that you say that because I don't know that I would have had the capacity to see more people per in person to have like I I think that would have been incredibly overwhelming.
SPEAKER_03:Um when Evan died, we had like we had a two-day wake. Oh my gosh. That was really hard. And then a service. And um we had like a thousand people show up, literally. Oh I counted the names in the get in the sign-in book over the course of two days, and um, it was standing room only in the church for his service. Oh and that was a lot. That's and overwhelming. I I didn't plan, okay. I my memories of those early days of losing Evan are kind of sketchy, and it and it's been a while too. Um I do remember the people from the funeral home saying, you know, you're gonna have a big turnout. And in my head, I'm thinking, why? Why would I have a big turnout? He was a popular kid. Um he was he was in middle school, he played baseball, he was he had gone to several different camps. He was well known, right? And in our little neighborhood, we were a tight-knit little community. So yeah, why I mean I did I was surprised, and it was very overwhelming. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I can't I can't imagine having to face everyone and having everyone come up and say, I'm so sorry for your loss. I'm so sorry for like, oh my god, just stop, please.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:A thousand people would have like, yeah, I couldn't have done that. I don't know how you, I don't know how you did that. But I mean, wow. That's that was incredible.
SPEAKER_03:That was a lot. So um, and had we been in a different time, I think for Dennis it probab it could have conceivably been even more than that, right? Um so yeah, I I don't know if I I may not have had a choice, right? Right. Um, but no, looking back on it, I don't think I had the capacity for it.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and I do think that the time divine timing on some of these things that it to help protect us too, yeah. For sure. Um do you find, and I know it was a long time with Evan, but do you find that you see flashes of memories of those services or flashes of moments when you can kind of see yourself kind of not necessarily out of body, but it's like you kind of see yourself, but you sort of disassociated. Yes, completely. Because I find myself have seeing the memories, but it's almost disassociative that I've disassociated, or that it's somebody else having those experiences.
SPEAKER_03:Um somebody left me a very beautiful silver bracelet with a little angel charm on the end of it at the funeral home for me. Oh wow. And nobody ever came forward to say it it was left anonymously.
SPEAKER_00:Oh wow.
SPEAKER_03:Right? And I wore that bracelet for many years until the charm literally like wore off and broke off. Um but I still have it in my jewelry box, and when I come across it, I always have these flashbacks of when the funeral home called me to say that nobody had picked up any of our flowers and that there was this gift that had been left for me. And I kind of thought, I don't give a damn about the flowers. Right. Right. Um and the gift, like who who gets a gift when your kid dies? Right, right.
SPEAKER_02:And forgive me if the person who gave me that gift is listening.
SPEAKER_00:But it turned out it was an incredible talisman for you.
SPEAKER_03:Oh my gosh, yes.
SPEAKER_00:I I wore that bracelet for many years. Yeah. But it is when you think about it, you're like, wow, you did you got something you didn't know you needed. Right. That yeah. Absolutely.
SPEAKER_03:Um, so just to give a little background, Dennis was Evan's teacher. That's how I met Dennis. And after Evan died, he um, without the permission of the school, put together this whole thing where they planted a tree in honor of Evan.
SPEAKER_01:Wow.
SPEAKER_03:And um they invited the students to come out and be a part of it and to share any memories or to write poems and or whatever, you know. And um, the tree is there to this day. It has grown incredibly, it's a beautiful little tree. Um, Dennis was one of those, like, I'd rather ask for your forgiveness than permission.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Um, I think under the circumstances under which Evan died were very uncomfortable. And so they were kind of shying, the administration was kind of shying away from doing anything to acknowledge um Evan's death. So, and Dennis felt like that was completely wrong. And so he went out and bought a tree and dug a hole and planted it and uh arranged this whole thing, right? Wow. And which was amazing. And I remember standing at that and thinking, that's great. My kid died and I got a tree.
SPEAKER_00:And I just terrible shouldn't laugh. No, but you know what, and that's what distance and stuff like it is, some of like it seems ridiculous in the moment, and yet now it probably means so much.
SPEAKER_03:Right. I mean, like I can go back at any given time to Stanford and go sit with this tree, and I feel incredible comfort, and I feel Evan's presence there, right? Well, and the fact that Dennis must have known that. Right. He he just knew that I needed some someplace to go, right, to be with Evan. And uh while we were still in Connecticut, I found myself at that tree plenty of times.
SPEAKER_00:Well, and I kind of love that Dennis was the one who did that for you. Right. Because now there's a memory of Dennis there too, right? So I mean it's absolutely but it is, it's it's crazy how sometimes these things we don't know what we need when we get it, and then it may seem silly or whatever, but then it's like, oh, that was kind of like the kindest thing ever. Like, but you can but you can laugh because at the moment it's like the ridiculousness of your thoughts. Absolutely. Of you because at that point when you've lost someone and it's within the first like 24, 48 hours, everything seems fucking ridiculous.
SPEAKER_03:Oh my gosh, yes. It was it just seemed like and I think I thought I was crazy. Cause I I said to myself, I must be fucking crazy. Right. I must have gone insane.
SPEAKER_00:Uh-huh. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Like this can't be real. This cannot be my reality right now.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Yeah. No, I absolutely feel that too. I it's it felt like it was just un, it was just not real. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that that's and I think that you don't recognize in the moment how much you can actually handle versus how much pressure you should put on yourself. Because we're a whole other topic because we do put so much pressure on ourselves. Oh, absolutely. And to do the right things and not make a misstep or not do something that's like, you know, everyone walks around you with egg like they're on eggshells when someone dies, too. And it's, you know, it's okay. Like I found myself, I had some of the best girlfriends. Um, I think it was like the first couple of nights that when Mike had died, I had girlfriends from Florida. They called me and we talked for hours and we laughed about stuff. And it's not, it's not wrong to laugh. You need to laugh. Like, and both of these women um had met Mike and had dinner with Mike, so we'd spent time together with them. And so, you know, they had a memory of him, not just from me, but they had spent time with him. And it just like we did, we laughed about things, and you can have these moments of I don't know what you call it, but like clarity in the middle of the fog. Yes. And I think that that's it's normal. And I think we put too much pressure on ourselves to be like, oh my god, did I just laugh?
SPEAKER_03:Like you have to allow yourself to feel things, and if you're with a friend, yes, I I really craved like these moments of normalcy, like it feels good to laugh because that's normal. Right. Right. Um, it feels good to like be talking to my friend or because that's normal. Anything other than feeling what I was feeling. Right.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Right. And I think, you know, and I think that that's uh an amazing thing. And we we'll get into this in a different topic, but I had a friend who even to this day, we both text back and forth, but um the thing we'll say is when we haven't talked to each other, it's like checking on you. It's not how you doing, because you know how I'm doing. Right. Are you okay? No, no, I'm not. You know, how's your day? It fucking sucks. You know, I mean, it's just checking on you. And I think that that's that's enough. Right. To know someone cares.
SPEAKER_03:Um here's another side of enough that we we haven't covered yet. The people on the outside who are who feel so helpless, yes, who are so desperate to help, to do something, who just want to make it easier, to make you feel better, they also feel like I can I do enough? Like, I can't possibly do enough to help to make a difference.
SPEAKER_00:Yes, I think that's a great point. And I will tell you two of the things that happened to me that I think are really great examples of this. Um, my aunt and uncle came and they drove up immediately. And um, we had gotten very close to my girl cousin, Mike and I. She would come and she would be in town for business, or she would come in for the weekend and we'd hang out, and she would have a hotel because she was allergic to cats. So she would stay in a hotel. Um, but we'd have nice visits and we'd enjoy having her at the house. They said, We'll be there, and they came. Um, she called me and said, I can't be there tonight. I can't be there tonight, but I will be there tomorrow, and I'm leaving on Friday, and I'm coming back on Sunday, and then I'm staying through the following Friday, and I'm gonna stay with you the second week. And she's like, You can't say no. I'm telling you, I'm not asking you, I'm telling you what's gonna happen. And it literally, I just started, you know, the tears because I for someone to say, This is what I'm doing, was so meaningful and so incredible. And so if you aren't sure and you want to do enough, like take them a meal. Don't you don't have to see them, like give them a DoorDash credit, like do something like that, give them an Instacart credit. You know, if it's somebody that you're really, really close to and you're like, I'm coming over and I'm bringing dinner and that's what we're gonna do. Like, that's fine. And I even had one friend because I'd had company for like two weeks straight. I had one friend who brought candy and we were gonna watch movies and she brought cookies and candy, and we sat and we visited and we talked, and she was gonna stay over. And I love her so much, and I'm so grateful for this that she allowed me, she's like, if you've had enough company, I'm okay going home tonight. And I was like, I kind of would like to like be alone. I've kind of had a lot of company, and she's like, Okay, I'll leave the Oreos, and I'm like, Thank you. Like, but she was kind enough to know that I'd had a lot of people, right? And that sometimes it's okay, and I will never forget that kindness of her because that was exactly what I needed in that moment. And I think you're right. I think people want to do they want to do more, they don't know what to do. Have I done enough to show that friend? And I think a text checking on you. But one of the things that I've read a lot is don't ask somebody how can I help you? Oh yeah. Because they're never gonna tell you. Right. And that's what I loved so much about my cousin Megan, because she was just like, I'll be there tomorrow and I'm leaving, and then I'm coming back. I'm not asking. And she helped me pack up the rest of the house along with her mom and dad. And I will never forget that ever.
SPEAKER_03:So eternally grateful for the people who kind of like swoop in and they instinctively know what you need, and they just kind of like I had people, my people just like came in and took over, and thank God they did because I was out of my mind. Yes. I like I I don't know how Nathan got fed or changed or bathed, you know. Um Jackson, I like goodness, but it happened. Right. You all survived it. We did, yeah. But I not, you know, not alone. I I had help.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:I had people who cared.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The first two weeks, it was a lot of it was it was family that was there, and my aunt and uncle were amazing. They like Mike and I hadn't packed the kitchen yet because we were still living in the house. Like our closing date was like three and a half weeks away. So three and a half weeks after Mike died, I had to sell my house and be out of there. And I would never would have I never would have survived it without the help of people going, we're here and we're here to help you. We're going to help pack up the house. And I'm like, wait, what? Yeah. And it never would.
SPEAKER_03:I think that's a whole uh other episode about the people who Yeah. You know, the early support and how you get through.
SPEAKER_00:Yep. Yeah, no, absolutely. Absolutely.
SPEAKER_03:The early days. Maybe we can call that the early days.
SPEAKER_00:The early days.
SPEAKER_03:Because certainly I had some people who showed up early on that um, no, I did not want them to be there. They were no help.
SPEAKER_00:Yes, I had I had someone who was there who was absolutely no help. Uh yeah. Not my cousin, not my aunt and uncle. Um but yeah, just you know, wanted to know what the Hulu password was so they could. Oh my goodness, yes. Uh-huh. And then tell me about how things were challenging with their spouse. Right. And I lost my shit. That was the night Mike died. Yeah. And um, I lost my shit on them and just was like, seriously, I don't ever want to hear those. I was I was pissed. I don't ever want to hear those fucking words come out of your mouth again. Because people, I would people give anything to have Mike here and not have it be perfect.
SPEAKER_03:Um, maybe about two weeks after Evan died, I had a friend who called me and she said, her name is Sancha. She said, Uh I want to do something. What can I do to help you? And I I was standing in my kitchen looking at a pile of laundry. Right. And I was like, Wanna come over and help me fold laundry? And that's what she did. That's amazing. She came over. Over, we folded, we didn't talk because I didn't feel like talking to anybody. We folded laundry and we organized the pantry.
SPEAKER_00:Wow.
SPEAKER_03:That's what I needed, and that's what she helped me with.
SPEAKER_00:And that's a friend, right? She didn't ask, like, hey, let me talk your ear off while we're doing this. Like, let me just, and I think that's with grief, and that's kind of the grief companioning. Like, let me just be with you. Yes. I will just be here. I will help you. And I think that that's sometimes that's enough. Yes. And I think I think um I think this is a really powerful word.
SPEAKER_03:I think that I was just thinking like this little word means so much.
SPEAKER_00:Yes. And especially when it comes to grief. And I think the people that love you it sometimes it's just enough to be near you and taking care of the things that you don't know how to take care of. Right. Because you can't function. Absolutely. And I'm so grateful Mike and I didn't have kids. All I had to do was take care of me and the cats, which was a struggle. Like I could not have I can't even imagine how you do it, did it with kids. There's just there's so much there. That's a whole nother episode, I think.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, there's there is it is um Yeah, there's a lot of resentment around that too. Because I was like, I why am I a single parent?
SPEAKER_00:Right.
SPEAKER_03:Forced into Why am I doing this alone? Like I can't possibly do this.
SPEAKER_00:Forced into that's yes, forced into roles that you were not expecting to have when you've when you've had a partner for a long time. Yeah. That's and that's also where am I enough? Am I gonna be able to do this?
SPEAKER_03:So, you know, hindsight's 2020, right? So we talked about those feelings of enough, which really were more related to the early days. What does that mean to you now in present day?
SPEAKER_00:Oh that's a tough question. Um I still wonder if I'm enough. I still wonder if I do enough. I know, I know, but you've seen this in me, right? Am I doing enough? Am I and I tend to do more than I need to. I tend to not necessarily always take care of myself. I'm a work in progress, I'm getting better at it. I'm definitely getting better at it, but I still question, am I enough? A lot of times. Like, this is a lot to do by oneself. It is. And yeah, but I I I have come to a different place in my life where I recognize that I work to live. I don't live to work. Mike and I worked our asses off. I I work to live. I live to take care of my babies, and I love my babies. And a lot of times I'm learning to accept my alone time, and a perfect day is kind of cloudy, overcast, maybe some rain, a really great book, something on the TV in the background, and my babies around me, and that's enough. There you go. That's enough. So I've kind of learned to go, okay, maybe it's not am I enough, but what is enough? Like to have a happy life. And to have a, I don't know, a peaceful life, a fulfilled life. You know, I don't have kids. I'm, but I have a number of kids in my life that I love and adore, and who now have their own kids that I love and adore, and you know, all of those things. But um, you know, what do I what is enough for me to be fulfilled? Simple pleasures. Mm-hmm. What about you? How do you think of it today versus then?
SPEAKER_03:I think my needle is always kind of ever changing. Like, you know, like today might be enough that I got out of bed and the house didn't burn down and I took care of what needed to be done for the day, right? Right. Um and other days it might be, hey, I I finished raising a kid who graduated high school, who's in the military now. And um Yeah, that was a lot. And that was more than enough.
SPEAKER_00:It was more than enough.
SPEAKER_03:Right. Um Yeah. So I I think it's it depends on what we're talking about. Yeah. And it depends on how I'm feeling. Yeah.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Cause it's as we know, nothing that we go through in our grief journey is linear, right? So some there are it's up and down, good days, bad days. Some days are heavy, some days are like, oh, wow, yeah, I I can do this. Yeah. Great.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Next day it's like, who the hell are you? Right. What were you thinking?
SPEAKER_00:Right. I folded laundry yesterday, and today there's laundry in the dryer. Right. That I may live out of for the next couple of days. So, you know, I think, but I think that does bring up a great point about enough, right? Like what is enough, and make sure that it's you that is determining what that is, and to not overextend yourself.
SPEAKER_03:Absolutely. And what other people may or may not be thinking about what is enough, like, oh, it's enough that that I'm hearing about you still talking about this.
SPEAKER_00:Oh my God. Yes. Oh, enough. Stop talking about your dead husband. No, right. Never gonna do it. Never gonna do it. Like, especially now that I can finally do it without crying. I mean, I have days where I still can't, like, it still gets me choked up. There's some days. Uh yeah, it it happens, but like the majority of the time now, I can talk about him without crying. Yeah. And that's that's progress. That's enough progress. Oh, yeah. Right? Like that's it's more than enough. It is more than enough. Yeah. And I think that that's it's the baby steps, right? It's it's all of those things. Yes. Um, this has been a great conversation. It has been. I love our time together. I love our time together too.
SPEAKER_03:So I'm blessed, honored, privileged to be here with you to talk about these things.
SPEAKER_00:Same friend. I absolutely feel like this is such an amazing blessing to be able to have one, to have you, this amazing human in my life, as my friend, who tells me when you've done enough today, or you are so more than enough. And I appreciate all of that. And it just means the world to be walking this path with you. Somebody who gets it.
SPEAKER_03:Totally.
SPEAKER_00:Somebody who gets it.
SPEAKER_03:A shared live experience, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Yes, absolutely. Um, and I think on that, I think we will end for this episode. And as always, be gentle with yourself until next time, and we look forward to to talking with you again.
